trade talk heats up

Big four-teamer rumored. Can this happen? Let's see....


Boston Celtics
Incoming Players
Jermaine O'Neal Salary: $18,084,000 Years Remaining





Outgoing Players: Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff, Ryan Gomes, Wally Szczerbiak

Los Angeles Lakers
Incoming Players
Troy Hudson Salary: $5,603,000 Years Remaining: 4, Kevin Garnett Salary: $21,000,000 Years Remaining: 3





Outgoing Players: Andrew Bynum, Brian Cook, Kwame Brown, Lamar Odom

Indiana Pacers get BOSTON'S # 5 pick
Incoming Players
Gerald Green Salary: $1,347,000 Years Remaining: 2, Kwame Brown Salary: $8,287,500 Years Remaining: 2, Theo Ratliff Salary: $11,666,666 Years Remaining: 2, Ryan Gomes Salary: $664,209 Years Remaining: 2,





Outgoing Players: Jermaine O'Neal

Minnesota Timberwolves get LA's # 19 PICK
Incoming Players
Andrew Bynum Salary: $2,030,280 Years Remaining: 2, Brian Cook Salary: $1,817,141 Years Remaining: 3, Lamar Odom Salary: $12,348,596 Years Remaining: 3, Wally Szczerbiak Salary: $11,775,000 Years Remaining: 3,





Outgoing Players: Troy Hudson, Kevin Garnett





Well, that’s not entirely fair to the Pacers or Wolves. One of them is getting screwed either way in this deal. And now, according to all sources, talks are over for the mega-deal.

But if the Lakers and Minnesota are still talking, it’s not as impossible as you think. Let’s see here…









Minnesota Timberwolves
Incoming Players
Sasha Vujacic Salary: $973,920 Years Remaining: 2PTS: 4.3 REB: 1.5 AST: 0.9 PER: 11.67
Bernard Robinson Salary: $1,000,000 Years Remaining: 2PTS: 2.0 REB: 1.5 AST: 0.6 PER: 7.59
Hassan Adams Salary: $412,718 Years Remaining: 2PTS: 2.9 REB: 1.3 AST: 0.2 PER: 12.77
Andrew Bynum Salary: $2,030,280 Years Remaining: 2PTS: 7.8 REB: 5.9 AST: 1.1 PER: 15.44
Mile Ilic Salary: $800,000 Years Remaining: 2PTS: 0.0 REB: 0.2 AST: 0.0 PER: -48.72
Vladimir Radmanovic Salary: $5,215,000 Years Remaining: 5PTS: 6.6 REB: 3.3 AST: 1.2 PER: 11.02
Josh Boone Salary: $1,053,960 Years Remaining: 2PTS: 4.2 REB: 2.9 AST: 0.2 PER: 14.62
Richard Jefferson Salary: $11,200,000 Years Remaining: 5PTS: 16.3 REB: 4.4 AST: 2.7 PER: 13.88
Clifford Robinson Salary: $1,600,000 Years Remaining: 2PTS: 4.1 REB: 2.4 AST: 1.0 PER: 5.96
Kwame Brown Salary: $8,287,500 Years Remaining: 2PTS: 8.4 REB: 6.0 AST: 1.8 PER: 13.79
Maurice Evans Salary: $1,620,000 Years Remaining: 2PTS: 8.4 REB: 2.9 AST: 1.0 PER: 12.14



Outgoing Players: Marko Jaric, Mark Blount, Trenton Hassell, Troy Hudson, Kevin Garnett

New Jersey Nets
Incoming Players
Brian Cook Salary: $1,817,141 Years Remaining: 3PTS: 6.9 REB: 3.3 AST: 1.0 PER: 14.83
Lamar Odom Salary: $12,348,596 Years Remaining: 3PTS: 15.9 REB: 9.8 AST: 4.8 PER: 16.20
Trenton Hassell Salary: $4,350,000 Years Remaining: 4PTS: 6.7 REB: 3.2 AST: 2.7 PER: 9.71



Outgoing Players: Bernard Robinson, Hassan Adams, Mile Ilic, Josh Boone, Richard Jefferson, Clifford Robinson

Los Angeles Lakers
Incoming Players
Marko Jaric Salary: $5,525,000 Years Remaining: 5PTS: 5.3 REB: 2.6 AST: 2.1 PER: 9.57
Mark Blount Salary: $7,288,165 Years Remaining: 4PTS: 12.3 REB: 6.2 AST: 0.8 PER: 12.73
Troy Hudson Salary: $5,603,000 Years Remaining: 4PTS: 5.9 REB: 1.4 AST: 2.1 PER: 10.74
Kevin Garnett Salary: $21,000,000 Years Remaining: 3PTS: 22.4 REB: 12.8 AST: 4.1 PER: 24.20



Outgoing Players: Sasha Vujacic, Brian Cook, Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum, Vladimir Radmanovic, Kwame Brown, Maurice Evans



Everyone has been saying that this package has no value for Minnesota. And yeah, Odom and Kwame don’t. But they have value outside of themselves. See, Kwame’s contract is up soon. In this weird NBA landscape of salary cap and space concerns and luxury taxes and whatnot, that makes him a valuable asset. They can dump some of their bad contracts on LA in exchange for a good one. This is an addition-by-subtraction trade, if you will. And seeing as to how many bad people they have, they’d better start getting rid of them.

And as far as Odom goes, it’s true that Minnesota doesn’t want him. He wants no part of them either. But I can guarantee other teams (Eastern teams) would be willing to take a crack at him. He can play the four in the East and not be such a liability. Teams like the Sixers, Knicks, and Nets, who have gaping holes at forward, would definitely take a long look at him. The Wolves won’t get back a star, very likely, but they’ll be able to get good contracts, draft picks, or young guys. And thus, Odom has a little value.

Really, it’s not so much that the Lakers have to convince Minnesota that Odom would be good for them. They both know that’s not true. They need to convince Minnesota that other teams would want him. Maybe they do get a third team involved from the East. Or maybe Minnesota just picks him up and then deals him later. They’ve got options. Then they have Foye and Bynum to build around, with their high pick this year, maybe a mid pick they get in that trade, and the Lakers’ pick. It’s not great, but it’s a start. And they use this trade to dump all their horrible, awful, overpriced guys. They need to start over, and they know KG is going to leave next year for nothing. So why not start now and get something in return?

I keep bringing up the Nets in both the KG and Marion deals as a potential partner because they’ve been looking for a four man ever since Kenyon Martin left. Odom is a New Yorker and would fit in their uptempo system. Since they didn’t trade Kidd or Carter, they’re obviously still interesting in competing and spending cash. They’d take a flier on Odom. His best year was in Miami, playing the East and running in an uptempo system. Philly has picks, and Jersey would love to try it.

Hell, they might even give up Richard Jefferson. It’s easier to pick up wings, especially in this draft, where there are a TON (but not so many big guys). The Nets getting a Nick Young or Thaddeus Young or Derrick Byars or Rodney Stuckey at 16 to help replace Jefferson seems a lot more palatable to me than trying to pick up a decent four man at that spot. They have to roll the dice, because Kidd is almost done and they can’t really compete with their current roster. Just a few more tweaks, though, and they’re back in it. Did I mention the East (particularly their division) sucks? Rod Thorn, paging Mr. Thorn.

By the way, the way this trade is laid out, for cap reasons, the Lakers trade both Cook and Radmanovic, which I haven’t projected before, but the Wolves don’t really need or want the Radman, so they’ll figure out a follow up trade (you can do this after a couple months, or also by waiving people) to get him back and give the Wolves more relief. Maybe they draft a guy in the second round on behalf of the Wolves, sign him, and then trade him. In any case, Minnesota picks up a lot of guys (and will probably waive half of them) whose contracts are up soon,

UPDATE: Yeah, umm, so an hour after I posted this, word got out that the Lakers-Wolves talks had broken down. Now, apparently, it’s back to Phoenix again, with the Celtics throwing themselves in the ring…. Of course, Marion isn’t playing there either. Once again, I think they could convince the Nets or Sixers to get involved in this. Marion might like them better than Boston, and he’s more reliable than Lamar Odom, who has the key problem Minnesota had with the deal. But then, who does Boston get?

Phoenix gets KG. Minnesota gets Boston’s # 5 pick, Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair (ironic with his Marbury connections), Atlanta’s pick next year from Phoenix, and all those soon-to-be expiring guys from Jersey. Jersey gets Marion. Boston gets… Richard Jefferson? Maybe they could convince the Nets to give up Nenad Kristic instead. That would be a decent move, because he’s shown more than a project like Brandan Wright or Yi. But would they? And if not, is Jefferson worth giving up the fifth pick? When they could get Corey Brewer there or even later?

If the Sixers or Knicks are involved, it’s still tough. The Sixers can only give up draft picks, really, and they aren’t as high. The Knicks could give you a bunch of overpriced and only decent guys, unless the C’s really think Channing Frye is worth it. I doubt it.

So this trade is looking rough, too, because the Celtics must find a new destination for Marion, and the teams most interested can’t offer much.

And now those old Indiana-Lakers talks are back up. Once again, I could see these teams (Knicks, Sixers, Nets) getting involved because they’d take Odom. And that kills the chances of Marion going to any of those places (these teams have more to offer the Pacers than the Celtics).

Let’s look at who might be interested in Marion, since the Celtics appear to be the only people having problems with this deal. The problem is that the Celtics need to find someone that 1. is interested, 2. has the right people, and 3. can convince Marion to play there. That’s a lot to demand. Who has the best shot?

ATLANTA – Marvin Williams, # 11 pick. Not terrible, but would he play there?

CLEVELAND – Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, whatever. Meh. Cavs would certainly enjoy this, especially if they could convince C’s to throw in Delonte West, or work out some sort of sign and trade with Anderson Varejao. But this is not so good for Boston.

CHICAGO – Tyrus Thomas, Thabo Selfosha, # 9. Not bad, but do the Bulls want to do it?

DALLAS – Josh Howard, Devin Harris, Maurice Ager. Meh. Need a big guy or decent pick.

GOLDEN STATE – Jason Richardson, Al Harrington, Patrick O’Bryant, # 18. Not bad, but the Warriors are more interested in the fifth pick. Still, this might be worth looking into. It’s more quantity than quality, but it’s something.

NEW YORK – Channing Frye or David Lee, Renaldo Balkman, Quentin Richardson, # 21. Even if they could get Lee and Balkman, Isiah’s only claims to fame, that’s not much. These two old rivals both just get really mediocre… they’ll make the playoffs, probably, but have no chance of doing anything.

NEW JERSEY – Nenad Kristic (maybe) OR Richard Jefferson, # 16, expiring contracts. Kristic and others would help. Jefferson, probably not. He’s a decent addition to Pierce, but the other teams can all do better. If the C’s throw in Gerald Green and Ryan Gomes, they’d probably be able to wing Kristic. Maybe…. the Nets would need to be able to resign Mikki Moore to feel better.

PORTLAND – Zach Randolph, spare parts. Interesting… don’t you think Portland kind of owes Boston after fleecing them for Brandon Roy last year? If the Blazers take Oden, wouldn’t this be a decent follow up move? Marion may or may not like this… he’d be the best player for now, but he’s got to share the limelight with two likable young guys. In Portland. Hmmm…

SACRAMENTO – Ron Artest, # 9 (maybe), etc. I already discussed Marion for Artest earlier, but that was just between the Suns and Kings. Boston may or may not consider this based on the obvious Artest worries. And does either guy like the new digs?

SEATTLE – Rashard Lewis (sign and trade), Chris Wilcox. The Sonics would be fun to watch, but Marion and Lewis have to be sold on new teams. I’m not convinced. And isn’t Lewis just a slightly better version of Wally, or someone they could get at number 5?

That’s about it. I think he has to go to one of those teams. Others don’t have enough or won’t be able to please him. Utah, Charlotte, Memphis, and Milwaukee have some pieces, but I don’t think he wants any part of those teams. San Antonio, Miami, Orlando, Houston, and the Clippers would be nice, but they have nothing to offer.


SECOND UPDATE: Okay, now the Suns ARE apparently willing to give up Stoudemire for Garnett. But they're not doing it straight up, they're making another team get involved. I guess they feel bad sending Amare to the lakes, so they'd like to rerout him somehwere nice.



And now that place is....



ATLANTA????



Wow, the Hawks, for all their utter failures, could have this fall in their lap. Apparently, Minnesota will let them take Stoudemire in the deal for the 3 and 11 picks. Isn't he worth more than that? Whatever, they have loads of cap space, so Minnesota can take Horford, another good player at 11, and get rid of some bad contracts, conceivably. That's fair. That's the best deal they've had yet for KG. And I think it happens if the Suns give in, because, if Minnesota likes it, I'm sure Atlanta is estatic. Billy Knight is crying somewhere on his knees, like Tim Robbins in Shawshank.

One interesting quirk here: I'm sure the Suns might include their pick they have from Atlanta next year in the deal. It's one of their best chips. But if Atlanta is now involved in the deal, and they get Amare, they'll be much better. Playoff material, very possibly. So that pick wouldn't be as nice... thus, they're making a deal in which the deal itself devalues one of its own assets... strange.

Maybe they hope McHale doesn't notice the irony there.

Let's see how the Hawks and their big cap space can help the Suns and Wolves get this done. I think they might even trade one of their top youngsters, they're so happy Amare is here... that might convince the Wolves to not take the 11 pick, so they can still get a point guard liek Acie Law:

Minnesota Timberwolves
Incoming Players
Speedy Claxton Salary: $6,854,546 Years Remaining: 4PTS: 5.3 REB: 1.9 AST: 4.4 PER: 7.37
Lorenzen Wright Salary: $3,250,000 Years Remaining: 2PTS: 2.6 REB: 3.2 AST: 0.6 PER: 6.65
Marvin Williams Salary: $4,174,800 Years Remaining: 2PTS: 13.1 REB: 5.3 AST: 1.9 PER: 12.26
Solomon Jones Salary: $675,000 Years Remaining: 3PTS: 3.3 REB: 2.3 AST: 0.2 PER: 12.22
Tyronn Lue Salary: $3,500,000 Years Remaining: 2PTS: 11.4 REB: 1.9 AST: 3.6 PER: 14.16
Josh Childress Salary: $2,863,920 Years Remaining: 2PTS: 13.0 REB: 6.2 AST: 2.3 PER: 16.24
Shelden Williams Salary: $2,952,840 Years Remaining: 2PTS: 5.5 REB: 5.4 AST: 0.5 PER: 12.39
Kurt Thomas Salary: $7,821,482 Years Remaining: 2PTS: 4.6 REB: 5.7 AST: 0.4 PER: 11.37

Outgoing Players: Mark Blount, Trenton Hassell, Kevin Garnett

Phoenix Suns
Incoming Players
Salim Stoudamire Salary: $729,000 Years Remaining: 2PTS: 7.7 REB: 1.2 AST: 1.0 PER: 11.40
Kevin Garnett Salary: $21,000,000 Years Remaining: 3PTS: 22.4 REB: 12.8 AST: 4.1 PER: 24.20

Outgoing Players: Marcus Banks, Amare Stoudemire, Kurt Thomas

Atlanta Hawks
Incoming Players
Marcus Banks Salary: $3,600,000 Years Remaining: 5PTS: 4.9 REB: 0.8 AST: 1.3 PER: 11.41
Amare Stoudemire Salary: $12,455,000 Years Remaining: 5PTS: 20.4 REB: 9.6 AST: 1.0 PER: 23.15
Mark Blount Salary: $7,288,165 Years Remaining: 4PTS: 12.3 REB: 6.2 AST: 0.8 PER: 12.73
Trenton Hassell Salary: $4,350,000 Years Remaining: 4PTS: 6.7 REB: 3.2 AST: 2.7 PER: 9.71

PICKS: Minnesota gets # 3, 22, and Atlanta's first next year

Outgoing Players: Salim Stoudamire, Speedy Claxton, Lorenzen Wright, Marvin Williams, Solomon Jones, Tyronn Lue, Josh Childress, Shelden Williams

There. That could work. Minnesota at least gets rid of Blount and Hassell, gets soem nice young guys, and guys that will be up in 2 years. Claxton is overpriced, but they could use a veteran backup to Foye. If they could find takers for Troy Hudson and Marko Jaric, they'd be in good shape.

But does any of this happen? Do the Suns really give up Amare? Do the Wolves allow a trade to happen where Stoudemire for Garnett is the main part and yet they don't get either? Are the Hawks stupid enough to turn even this down?

I guess we'll find out Thursday.